Larry Norman Message Board

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Although I no longer believe...

Date: Mar 15, 2008

I don't have the level of blind faith it takes to be an athiest. That, to me, is living a mindless existence.

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Brad,
I was raised in the church, Christian family, and knew the truth about Jesus at a young age. Nevertheless, my 1st yr in college, my parents divorced & my faith was shaken. The next 7 yrs I searched for 'alternative truth' in cults, drugs, witchcraft--but ,fortunately, returned to the Truth in 1981. I dont know what your experience was like, with Christianity, but like all seekers, you will find the Truth ONLY in Jesus--as Larry so well proclaimed in his music, ministry & his life. I'm sorry to hear you call yourself an atheist--but like the drug addict, homosexual, yuppie-businessman, only God can fulfill evryman's deepest needs. I will pray for you, as my mom & granparents prayed for me, when I was running from the truth, seeking to 'do my own thing'. THe truth is inthe Bibile--book of John is the best place to start, if you really want to find the truth. Funny how so many proclaimed 'atheists' have cried 'God, help me!' on their deathbeds (ie, Charles Darwin--thats a fact).
Dave
Rochester, NY
hudnells@aol.com

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Mike Brown wrote:

I don't have the level of blind faith it takes to be an athiest. That, to me, is living a mindless existence.

I'm sorry. That was rude. What I really want to say is, when I contemplate the intelligent design arguments, logic forces me to conclude that there is a God. It would be an act of denial to conclude anything different.

Date: Mar 15, 2008

And I was the one who posted the last message.

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Brad Reddekopp wrote:

I think his god-belief was ultimately unfortunate. I would have liked to have seen what he could have contributed both musically and philosophically if he could have freed himself from the mind-chains of Christianity and I think it is remarkable that he accomplished as much as he did in spite of that unnecessary burden.

If Larry wouldn't have been a Christian not only would his contributions have been far less, they would have been meaningless. He would have just blended in with the other hippie musicians who were searching for peace and love. Well, Larry found that peace and love through Jesus and stood firm on it for the rest of his life. His eternal rewards, impact, and influence far outweigh anything that a non-believer could ever hope to accomplish. Also, I guarantee you that Larry did not consider his faith an "unnecessary burden". In fact, it was his faith and hope in Jesus that helped him to deal with all of his struggles and pain and make it through each day.

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Thank you all for your responses. I don't want to get into an extended debate here about whether or not the claims of Christianity are true. I spent many years exploring those questions for myself and, at the age of 48, I'm satisfied that I've settled them.

I probably know the Bible better than most Christians do so asking me to read certain parts of it is unlikely to change my mind. I've explored the intelligent design arguments and have found them wanting. I'm familiar with the logical arguments for god-belief and I've seen that they are all fatally flawed.

I'd also like to point out that it is not a fact that Darwin had a deathbed conversion. That claim is not born out by the available evidence and, even if it were true, it wouldn't tell us anything about whether or not God is real.

Like I said, I don't want to get into an extended debate here but I wouldn't want you to think that I became an atheist lightly and without giving due consideration to the reasoning and evidence for the other side. If anyone really does want to discuss these things with me further, you can visit me at graveyardofthegods.com/forum/ where I post under the name "NoDeity".

Even though I no longer share Larry's faith, he was an important influence in my life and I was saddened to hear of his death, although it wasn't a surprise, considering how long he's been ill. Unlike so many others in both secular and religious music, he was a true artist who stood apart from the crowd. I would have liked to have known him.

Date: Mar 15, 2008

Brad:

Thank you for your bravery and being willing to post on a web page that is visited mostly by believers. I am curious as to what would have drawn you to Larry in the first place...was it just his music? Or perhaps his honest, straightforward way of dealing with issues? Perhaps he was the most real example of Christainity that you had ever seen before? Whatever the reason that you were drawn, it is apparent from your post that you continued to respect Larry for his artistry and the man he was. I appreciate the things you said here, as it has reminded me to be the salt and light that Larry so demonstrated in his own life.

I think, my brothers and sisters, that we should be stirred by the things Brad has shared here, and hear his thoughts on the reality of God (or not) as a call to a deeper commitment to our Lord to be the salt and light we are commanded to be. To stop talking "churchanity" and start living "Christainity". Larry set a tremendous example.....to his honor...and our Lord's glory...let us follow the path his showed.

in Him
teatime

Ps to Brad: Had you ever had the chance to meet Larry, you would have been amazed at the truth, light, and love that shined from his eyes. You would have liked him very much.

Date: Mar 16, 2008

Amen.

Date: Mar 16, 2008

Brad I guess none of us on this side of eternity really know if there is an all knowing all careing all loveing God. thats why its called
faith. and without that none of us can know or please HIM

Date: Mar 16, 2008

richard wrote:
Brad I guess none of us on this side of eternity really know if there is an all knowing all careing all loveing God. thats why its called
faith. and without that none of us can know or please HIM

Actually, there is really nothing you can know with absolute certainty. Biblical faith is trusting in God, not willfully believing in Him when you have no reason to do so. Trust/faith doesn't become less valid if it's based upon an evaluation of evidence, any more than my kids' trust/faith in me would become illegitimate if it were based upon past demonstrations of my trustworthiness.

So whereas it may be that we can never know this side of eternity that the God of the Bible really exists, it can also be said that an athiest can never know that He doesn't. The real question at hand is, where does the evidence lead?

The presense of design artifacts in the universe closes the case for theism. There is no logical possibility that the presense of encoded information in the universe came about by something other than a Mind.

Date: Mar 16, 2008

Loving the Lord with all our heat, soul, and mind is true frredom. I am free from everything that the world can or will throw at me, I just give it to Jesus, and he takes care of it.

I would much rather, believe in God, die and find nothing, than to live like there was no God and to die and find Him...I will have lost everything!

Larry is now in the presence of the Man from Gallilee.

Date: Mar 16, 2008

Hi everybody,

I love athiests and respect their right to their views. I know its tempting to start a dialogue here. Personally, I gave up arguing years ago in favor of keeping my focus on my God and my own journey. We all have different experiences that lead to our own sense of faith. I like knowing that Brad's response has been one of remembering Larry and his influence. It's great that those with a diversity of opinion still appreciate the man. In terms of CrashDog(did I get yor name right?).....In my opinion, Larry would have been a great songwriter and singer, no matter his view. He had the talent and the gifts for it. But, his excellence as an artist also isn't at all diminshed by following his convictions toward Christianity anymore than any other artist who honestly presents their worldview. In my experience and opinion, artists who stand true to their heart---whether or not I agree with----are truly free in artistic, emotional and intellectual expression. That's an indirect way of saying...its just an opinion that Larry had the Christian chains around his mind and of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But my experience and opinion formed by Larry's work is that he was truly an artist free from such things---

I'll read your blog site, Brad. And if I'm so inclined I'll be happy to dialogue. I'm just not fond of subject hyperbole that debates sometimes can become.

Thanks,

Terry

Date: Mar 16, 2008

CrashDog....write me off line. I'd like to talk back channel...if you don't mind

Scarecrowtr@gmail.com

Date: Mar 16, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:

In terms of CrashDog(did I get yor name right?).....In my opinion, Larry would have been a great songwriter and singer, no matter his view. He had the talent and the gifts for it. But, his excellence as an artist also isn't at all diminshed by following his convictions toward Christianity anymore than any other artist who honestly presents their worldview.

i'm not saying larry would have been any less talented if he wasn't a christian, i'm just saying that his influence wouldn't have been as profound. sure, he might have been more famous and had more fans, but what does that accomplish? he made more of an influence in christian music than he would have ever made in secular music. think about it, there are at least 10 times as many secular musicians as christian ones, so although larry wouldn't have been any less talented, he wouldn't have stood out like he did. he would have probably just blended in. however, that wasn't the case. He sowed a lot of good seeds for ther kingdom of god and now he's reaping his reward!

Date: Mar 17, 2008

Hi, I see your point. Its just hard to say with any certainty, but I understand better what you're saying than before.

thanks, Terry

Date: Mar 17, 2008

teatime wrote:
I am curious as to what would have drawn you to Larry in the first place...was it just his music? Or perhaps his honest, straightforward way of dealing with issues? Perhaps he was the most real example of Christainity that you had ever seen before?

The music was a big part of it, of course. I once read in an interview that Larry denied that he was an innovator. He said that his music was derivitave, if I recall correctly. Well, he absorbed the styles of blues and rock'n'roll and he gave them back to us in a way that sounded fresh and unique. Even when he was doing something that was strongly reminiscent of someone else's music, it was undeniably his. He had the ability to take a standard form and give it his own personal flavour.

It was also the message. It was the early '70s and I was in my early teens. The war in Vietnam was still on and I was against it -- not only because that was the "in thing" for a teenager at that time but also because I was part of a Christian tradition that took seriously phrases like "love thy enemy" and "turn the other cheek" -- and there was Larry being critical of the war. He was not merely critical of it but he was able to do that with humour. He also exhibited a rebelliousness toward (earthly) authority that one could question biblically but which appealed to me very strongly then and still does today.

The church culture with which I'd been familiar all my life until then seemed pretty stiff and formal to me and Larry obviously represented something quite different from that. He showed me that Christians didn't have to all look and sound the same to really be Christians. So, there was something refreshing about him that I found attractive.

The first album I bought was Upon This Rock. A song like "Sweet Sweet Song of Salvation" was obviously a lot more fun to sing and listen to than most of the "funeral marches" that I heard in church. That turned out to be the first song that I sang in public, starting a life-enriching hobby than continues for me to this day.

Musically, culturally and philosphically, Larry Norman changed my life and I never stopped respecting the man, however much I disagreed with some of what he said.

Date: Mar 17, 2008

By the way, the previous post was from me.

Terry Roland wrote:
I'll read your blog site, Brad. And if I'm so inclined I'll be happy to dialogue. I'm just not fond of subject hyperbole that debates sometimes can become.

I should warn you and anyone else who ventures over there that we don't believe in censorship at Graveyard of the Gods. At GOTG, we appreciate the fact that there's no such thing as a right to not be offended. We try to emphasize reason but, obviously, many people hold very passionate views on religion and politics and, as the owner of that site, I make no attempt to restrict the way people express those passions.

So, feel free to come over but be forewarned.

Date: Mar 17, 2008

Listen I don't care how you grew up or what you believe or dont believe. How you were traumatised as a child or not. The bottom line is ,is it in you or not. Did Larry Norman or anyone else water that seed that was in you or not. I refuse to believe you are or are not a Christian on your terms. Dont take the sovernty away from God. Either he knew you before the world began or you will be like the suprised at the end time saying BUT LORD... I cant help but believe that I became a sinner not by will. I was born that way and had nothing to do with the plan. So in return I have nothing to do with my rebirth. Its a call from God just like the mother eagle calls her young to return to the nest. There is no way she'll let a stranger in. Just like God she knows her own so if you are no longer a believer my guess is you never really were...

Date: Mar 17, 2008

Brad, I checked it out. No real need for forwarning at all. Its interesting to me to see how people form their beliefs. What you said interested me. A close friend was an atheist, then became a Christian(after a he fell in love with a Christian) then became an atheist again(after he fell out of love). I found the site a bit arrogant and negative, at least, that's the way I interpret it. Since we all personalize these areas, its hard for many people here not to take offense to these opinions. My bottom line is I'm okay with systems of belief--be in personal or external--that lead to compassion. I couldn't see this in the individual belieft expressed at the stite. At this time in my life, my energy has to go into what's positive for me. But, I'm glad you showed up and paid tribute to Larry and I was able to see what others who don't agree with me are up to.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

This has turned out to be a good thread. Thanks, Brad, for showing up. You probably knew people would react to the subject, but that's okay.
I agree with you completely about both Larry's distinction in being an evangelicial who protested the Vietnam War and his role as a rock innovator. He stood out from all of the rock and gospel folks in his articulation of opposition in the songs, 6 O'Clock News and Great American Novel. It was similar to Bruce ****burn during the Reagan era. Also, he did manage to take other rock, blues and soul forms and turn them into his own style and really a unique genre that people are still modeling today. The Nightmare song on So Long Ago The Garden is a great example of taking a Dylan style talking narrative and using similar metaphors but tailoring it to his own purpose. Has anyone ever noticed that the song Reader's Digest is based on Subteranean Homesidk Blues? When I saw him '74 at Maranatha Village, he even did a little narrative just before just before he broke into the song describing a vision of Dylan showing up at the foot of his bed and singing this song to him. Did you notice that Dylan is the only major rock figure of the 60's that Larry never criticized?

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:

Bruce ****burn

geez, i'd hate to have a last name that gets censored on message boards ;)

Terry Roland wrote:

Has anyone ever noticed that the song Reader's Digest is based on Subteranean Homesick Blues?

yeah, the first time i heard it i thought the same thing.

Terry Roland wrote:
Did you notice that Dylan is the only major rock figure of the 60's that Larry never criticized?

nah, there were plenty of 60's artists that he didn't criticize. dylan was one of them....larry had a lot of love and respect for him, but he wasn't the only one.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Again, Just a matter of opinion. For me, in my experience, The three major influences in rock of the 60's were The Beatles, The Stones and Dylan. There were plenty of others that represented that era, but these were the ones who had staying power and consistently influenced what was there at the time and what was to come. Bowie, Alice Cooper and others were not that important at the time. Bowie would become important...but, Alice? Of course, I left out Motown, but they were soul.....

So, again, Dylan had a special place for Larry. In an interview sometime in the 90's, he called Slow Train Movin' the best gospel rock record he'd ever heard. He also demonstrated his love for Dylan in his vocal style on songs like Great American Novel and The Outlaw.

Oh just to have a little fun......Bruce ****burn is a Christian. It's pretty offensive to censor a person's name. Maybe I'll open a thread entitled Larry Norman's influence on Bruce ****burn.

How about some scripture..."Verily I say unto you, Peter, before the **** crows you will deny me three times."

sorry...I'm a bit of a trouble maker I guess.

Please note....I'm talking from opinion and experience and of course, you're free to disagree...I know you know this...but, just to be clear.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Anybody ever hear of songwriter, Jim Dickinson?

Date: Mar 18, 2008

okay....we can call him Bruce Dickburn

Date: Mar 18, 2008

okay...I'll probably be banned from the board for the above test. It was me....not that Anon guy

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Hi Brad,

I am truly sorry that you "no longer believe". But I would beg to differ with you on what Larry might have accomplished.

For the record, I didn't know him personally, but we have the same Father so I have a good idea that his reply to you would be something along the lines of - "what burden?"

Perhaps if you re-visited the Gospel - you would see clearly that Jesus - (whom Larry loved and served) came to set us free.

If it had not been for the saving grace of Jesus Christ entering into Larry's life - he might not have accomplished much at all - and he may not have lived as long as he did.

I know Larry would have prayed for you - and I will as well.

Blessings,
Bill Morris

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Mike wrote:

Listen I don't care how you grew up or what you believe or dont believe. How you were traumatised as a child or not. The bottom line is ,is it in you or not. Did Larry Norman or anyone else water that seed that was in you or not. I refuse to believe you are or are not a Christian on your terms. Dont take the sovernty away from God. Either he knew you before the world began or you will be like the suprised at the end time saying BUT LORD... I cant help but believe that I became a sinner not by will. I was born that way and had nothing to do with the plan. So in return I have nothing to do with my rebirth. Its a call from God just like the mother eagle calls her young to return to the nest. There is no way she'll let a stranger in. Just like God she knows her own so if you are no longer a believer my guess is you never really were...

How insulting.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:
Has anyone ever noticed that the song Reader's Digest is based on Subteranean Homesidk Blues?

Yeah, I noticed that. Have you noticed a similarity between "Ha Ha World" (from Upon This Rock) and Neil Young's "Mr. Soul"? I don't know when "Ha Ha World" was written but Upon This Rock came out in '69. Buffalo Springfield recorded "Mr. Soul" in '67.

I don't know if Larry and Neil ever crossed paths but it's plausible that they did. In some ways, Larry's stuff is a bit like Neil's -- except that Larry was obviously a more intelligent writer. (Don't get me wrong, I love Neil Young's stuff.)

Date: Mar 18, 2008

It saddens me to hear that you are an atheist. I have to differ with you. I was raised in a Catholic home, we always went to church on Sundays over the years, but I found that there was something inside me that was emptiness. That emptiness could not be filled by anything or anyone. I tried everything. When I was 16 years old, I had a life changing experience. Someone invited me to a church and prayed with me that God would come into my heart and we prayed together that I would be forgiven. I became baptized and knew that my life changed from that moment. I no longer felt empty inside. It may sound like a cliche, but it really is true. I have Christ with me to help me face every turmoil, like Larry. His mission was realized in his music and to serve God. He brought many people to believe in God and to become Christians. I met him and I know the Holy Spirit was with him. I personally have had an experience with God, the creator who spoke to me in a vision. I know that He exists without a doubt. He is not some ogre in the sky. He is an infinite Being who truly loves us all. I can feel his presence always. I am going to pray for you that you will have an experience soon and believe and turn to Him too. All you have to do is ask him to forgive you to come into your heart and to confess that Jesus is Lord and to try to do the right thing and sin no more. He will take care of the rest. Please feel free to reply to this message at any time.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Excellent comment bro.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

All you have to do is ask him to forgive you to come into your heart and to confess that Jesus is Lord and to try to do the right thing and sin no more.
Been there, done that, got over it.

Please feel free to reply to this message at any time.
I'm not here to debate whether or not the claims of Christianity are true. I'm happy to do that on the web site to which I referred earlier but my feeling is that it would be in bad taste to do that here. I didn't come here to be re-converted or to inspire anyone to have a deconversion experience.

Please understand that the tactics used by those of you who are making overt attempts to "witness" to me are tactics with which I am familiar from my earlier years.

I'm not likely to be convinced by a subjective experience because I'm familiar with quite a number naturalistic explanations for "spiritual" experiences. I'm not likely to be convinced by reading from the Bible because I've already read the whole thing a number of times. I've studied it extensively and I'm aware of its many flaws. I'm not here to become another notch on your Bible Belt.

I'm not here to preach at you. Please have the good grace not to preach at me.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Thank You Brad for your honest posts and patience with some of the responses.
To everyone else, on such a forum as this, where those who were touched by Larry Norman's life have an opportunity to express such thoughts and feelings. Would it be too much to ask that a person might be able to do so and be given the neccessary space and grace?
Thanks

Date: Mar 18, 2008

Yes. I agree with the last comment. Respect for Larry and for Brad is called for. Brad's website is really interesting. Got there and dialogue, debate and learn what others believe in a way that's constructive. We're not here to preach. Now, here I am preaching. I'm so glad that some remember Larry enough to pay respect even though they disagree. This is a great testimony to his influence and his stand-alone talent as an artist.

Brad, I like Neil Young too. I do believe you're right. Larry probably modeled that song after Mr. Soul. He was very young and used some rather good templates, I'd say. But, I'd have disagree with Larry himself when in his own estimation his music was devrivative. He built off of the influences of others, but spoke with his own voice. Larry was a lot more intelligent than many of the icons of they, maybe, because they were trying to keep up with commercial success at the time.

Date: Mar 18, 2008

So was Jesus ask those Pharisees in John Chapter 8 v38-48 really looks like he's trying to evanglise those people huh!!Compare this passage if you care to to what Able may have said to Cain when no doubt as time passed he had to of asked Abel the question "wonder why God approved your nasty bloody offering and rejected mine"? Its a fact in John they sought to kill Jesus on the fact that
God was not there father and Jesus let them know it. Makes sense to me that could have been the same answer Abel gave Cain then he stewed on that a period of time then rose up to kill him. The Bible plainly states the devil is a Murderer and Cain was the like Judas the "SON" of perdition

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Mike, Brad has come to pay his condolences to Larry. He has been polite in his posts and demonstrated knowledge of the scriptures in his discussions. He has also offered an alternative place for those who wish to discuss religion. Surely the best witness here is to respect Brad's perspective rather than to argue theological details that not even all Christians would agree with.

Brad, I appreciate you taking the time to drop by.

Adam

Date: Mar 19, 2008

"Ha Ha World" first appeared on "Bootleg" which was earlier than "Upon This Rock". Not sure how that fits in with the timing vs Neil Young.

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:

Yes. I agree with the last comment. Respect for Larry and for Brad is called for. Brad's website is really interesting. Got there and dialogue, debate and learn what others believe in a way that's constructive. We're not here to preach. Now, here I am preaching. I'm so glad that some remember Larry enough to pay respect even though they disagree. This is a great testimony to his influence and his stand-alone talent as an artist.

Brad, I like Neil Young too. I do believe you're right. Larry probably modeled that song after Mr. Soul. He was very young and used some rather good templates, I'd say. But, I'd have disagree with Larry himself when in his own estimation his music was devrivative. He built off of the influences of others, but spoke with his own voice. Larry was a lot more intelligent than many of the icons of they, maybe, because they were trying to keep up with commercial success at the time.

Yes, Larry built on foundations laid by others. I'm sure you'll agree that it is exceedingly rare for anyone to do anything that owes nothing to what went before. Led Zep, for example, was a highly creative and innovative band but it is well-known that they plundered the work of older blues musicians.

I agree that Larry Spoke with his own voice -- and that voice turned out to be an influencial one.

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Oops, that was me in the previous post.

Anonymous wrote:

"Ha Ha World" first appeared on "Bootleg" which was earlier than "Upon This Rock". Not sure how that fits in with the timing vs Neil Young.

According to the Wikipedia article about it, Bootleg was released in '72 and was recorded between '68 abd '72. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleg_(Larry_Norman_album) So, "Ha Ha World" was recorded after "Mr. Soul" was released. I suspect that "Mr. Soul" was written first but it would be pretty hard to be sure about it. (Musically, I find "Ha Ha World" more interesting.)

Date: Mar 19, 2008

If I've got my timing right, Mr. Soul was written in 1967 and later recorded in on the second Springfield record. A funny side bit of history. Nobody in the band thought Neil was a very good singer. Otis Redding wanted to sing it instead. I believe he really wanted to sing it at the Monterey Pop Festival, but Neil refused. He insisted on singing it.

Larry was in Hollywood during those days when the Sringfield were about the biggest band around. But, who knows? Maybe they copied Larry! biggrin

Date: Mar 19, 2008

I'll check my sources on that. For What Its Worth by Richie Furay is well researched. I didn't read far enough to see your other comment. Yes. Bootleg was before Upon This Rock. Wasn't UTR the first album?

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Speaking of respect for Larry and his influence. Another place on this board I found mention of a documentary called First Love that chronicles the early days of the Jesus Movement and the influential musicians. It completely leaves Larry out. Never even mentions his name. Stonehill doesn't even mention his name.

I contend that someday, not only will Larry be remembered by many Christians, but also by the music world at large. I may be off-base and speaking from sentiment, but that's what I believe...because that's what I believe

Yes...Brad...Led Zep not only raped and pilaged their way through the old blues guys, they didn't give them any credit. They stole their songs. The Stones too. Willie Dixon had to sue them to get royalty. He heard his song on one of his kid's albums..

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:
Bootleg was before Upon This Rock. Wasn't UTR the first album?

Some of the recordings on Bootleg were made before UTR, some after. UTR was released in '69 and Bootleg in '72 but some of the stuf on Bootleg was recorded in '68.

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Yes. Maybe another Dylan reference,huh? Dylan's bootleg The Great White Wonder came out in '69. It would make sense that Norman would give a collection of demos and home recordings that title. An excellent album.

Have you heard Street Level? The First Time I Came To Church is a forgotten gem.

tr

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Brad, thankyou for your kind words about Larry. it is not wrong to have questions about ones faith as i believe God gave us a brain that we might use it to think. I believe Larrys faith was more than just a set of dusty beliefs,he lived his life expressing Christ love to others. Regardless of where you are today, Jesus still loves you. My advice would be to genuinely ask in prayer for Jesus to make himself real to you. As in one of Larrys songs i hope i see you in Heaven. If this all seems a bit mushy,well loves like that at times.Hope you live a long and fruitful life and one day in Heaven we can have a good chat.

Date: Mar 19, 2008

I cannot begin to over-estimate the influence Larry had upon my life. I was just a 16-year-old Rock n Roller when I got saved. I had grown-up in the church and rejected the faith. While I could sing most hymns from memory, they meant little to me.

The day after I got saved I went to the local christian bookstore looking for something to listen to. All the displayed music was the same-old same-old. I was about to leave when the sales woman reached under the counter and said, "The boss didn't want me to put this out, but I think you might like it." The fact that Larry and I had nearly the same length hair may have been her clue. I walked out with two "secret purchases". The sales woman asked me not to tell anyone where I bought them. They were Randy Matthews album and Larry Norman's "Street Level". I played them until my mother could sing every word.

Brad, after instantaneous deliverance from drugs and alcohol and many physical healings, and continual growth; I know all I need to know about the reality of God and His prescious Son Jesus, "Once I was blind, but now I see!" My best to you brother.

Larry shone a light into my life at just the right time. We will meet again. I hope you'll join us.

Pastor Gary

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Led Zep, for example, was a highly creative and innovative band but it is well-known that they plundered the work of older blues musicians.

Also... who in Zep was a Larry Norman fan? I ask as they quite clearly "borrowed" part of "She's A Dancer" for the chord sequence on "Stairway To Heaven"... Have a listen to it round about... "And on my early morning walks I often find her..."

Date: Mar 19, 2008

Brad, I'm just curious what hurt you so deep that you would let go of your faith? I have a cousin who is exactly like you, and he feels that he was deeply wounded by his family and church, but something incredibly hurtful happened that he won't talk about, and blames God. Likewise, I had a friend that refused to take any blame for his life (at 34 still lives at home, has never held a job and won't go get one) problems, and laid the blame solely, and unfarily, on God.

The only other thing I wonder is, does your atheism work for you? Does it give you peace in days of terror?

I'm sorry, I won't go to your forum site, I don't want to be "slimed" by the atmosphere. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but that's just the way I too, feel.

Date: Mar 20, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Led Zep, for example, was a highly creative and innovative band but it is well-known that they plundered the work of older blues musicians.

Also... who in Zep was a Larry Norman fan? I ask as they quite clearly "borrowed" part of "She's A Dancer" for the chord sequence on "Stairway To Heaven"... Have a listen to it round about... "And on my early morning walks I often find her..."

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I reckon they are different. Larry's progression is a minor chord with a falling bass then resolving to . Zep are actually changing chord.

Neither terribly original....eg Pachelbel used the same structure centuries ago in his Cannon in D, though that was a major setting.

There are only 12 notes in a western scale and there is a finite number of ways to put them together......just ask George Harrison!

Date: Mar 20, 2008

Terry Roland wrote:

Yes. Maybe another Dylan reference,huh? Dylan's bootleg The Great White Wonder came out in '69. It would make sense that Norman would give a collection of demos and home recordings that title. An excellent album.

Have you heard Street Level? The First Time I Came To Church is a forgotten gem.

Yeah, it could be a Dylan reference.

I used to have a copy of Street Level and I remember "The First Time I Came to Church" both from that LP and from concerts. I loved the way he didn't feel obligated to pay a lot of respect to institutionalized Christianity.

I looked up the album just now and saw the song title, "Sigrid Jane". I can hear it in my head now even though I haven't heard it in so long. What a cool song -- I wonder whether or not he meant anything by it other than the more obvious meaning?